Talk:Kinship terminology
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16.5.2009 I changed the wording "Western society" to "English speaking societies". It's clearly not an ideal wording either since there other societies sharing the same character, but it seems more reasonable to write something inaccurate than something truly false and ignorant. Another solution could be to emphasize even more that it's Morgan's views and words, if that is the case. This could be said e.g. with a title: Morgan's thoughts. The words "Western society" should not be used when meaning an English speaking society and maybe a couple of other societies having a similar logic in the language. The so called Western countries are NOT culturally uniform in the matter and therefore also languages differ in the case. -Western European Finnish speaker- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.157.74.216 (talk) 14:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
While I agree with the removal of this information from this page, I cannot agree with your reasons for it.
- The English kinship terminology does indeed exist, and scholars who write about kinship terminologies call it by that name. Scholars also talk about the American (or Yankee) kinship terminology, the Polish kinship terminology, the Punjabi terminology, the Shipibo terminology and so on. This is easily verified.
- Rarely do these different terminologies (for what else would you call them?) precisely match the idealized terminological patterns (e.g. Eskimo, Sudanese, etc.) commonly used by anthropologists to broadly categorize different kinship terminologies employed by people. The Polish terminology is a good example of this. I think we risk much be excluding too much of this detail and presenting an overly simplified and reductionist account of kinship terminologies. Haven't anthropology moved on a little ways past Morgan by now? By attending to the difference between kinship terminology as analytic construct (e.g. Omaha kinship) vs. kinship terminology as object of study (e.g. Punjabi kinship) we leave open the possibility of having individual pages not only describing each of these categories of kinship terminology but also pages the many different kinship terminologies actually used. Occamserasure (talk) 08:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the section on English kinship terminology for three reasons.
- it does not exist. scholars who write on kinship terminologies call this eskimo kinsip terminology
- there is a link to an article on eskimo kinship terminology that goes into the details. if we have all the deatisl in this article, we would need all the details on Sudanese, Hawaiian, Croa, Omaha, and Iroqois terminologies too and the article would be too long. linked articles on the specifics make sense.
- the material I deleted is also in the Family article which goes into greater detail on "the family" in Weastern societies. I think people who want to learn about the family structure of western societies are more likely to go to the family article than the kinship terminology article. Anyway, it is silly to have the same content repeated in different articles.Slrubenstein | Talk 12:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I also just removed a good deal of information on marriage and the family. These topics are different from kinship terminology and already have their own articles. I see no point in duplicating material in ther articles on related - but different - topics here. Let's just have links, and work on each article separately. Slrubenstein | Talk 16:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I like to get all details. I wil donate for the xtra Kb of storage Nasz 09:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] polish kinship
I removed this from the article ...
- Polish Polish genealogy use wider set of single words to more precisely describe familiar relationship. The uncle may be stryj father brother or wój mother brother. Aunt is ether stryjenka, wójenka or ciocia. The cousin are bracia (brothers) srtyjeczni, wójeczni or cioteczni. Bracia stryjeczni are also call bratanki while bracia cioteczni siostrzńce.
- Term wójenka stryjeczna is the (grand-)/father brother sister, this and all other terms are commonly used today when talking about or referring to family member. The system may be extended back with prefix grand - pra several generations back. Fuzzy maternal side ancestry is called pociot/y. Prefix pra may be used several times, for older relation is applied generic term seven waters after kisiel with some exception when bratanki are applied to Hungarian nation. The Polish Hungarian relationship has been recently proved by molecular genetics. The R1a haplogrup pointing to common biological father few millennia ago. Consult also Russian language family word племянник or племянница the plemie in Polish mean tribe while polish word for 'family' -rodzina is very similar to Rusian ‘‘rodina’’ which mean nation. The age distinguishing is created by suffixes. In old polish custom kids up to 7 years stay with mother, after postrzyżyny, go to father jurisdiction and get also new personal binominal single name. For mother father have gradual formal or friendly names and now 3 forms to refer to and one dual extinct. Even animals have different depending on sex names e.g. wolf: all walk, or personified wilcy or wilkowie, she wadera, he basior. It could be extended to all traditionally domesticated (extended family) animals e.g.: horse all konie, he ogier, she klacz, it zrebie. They ales have separate names for birth process. The animas even getting Christmas wishes (quite pagan by some) with specially prepared for them read oplatek. There are separate names for and for parents in love son/daughter in love, brothers in love. Parents and n-th ancestors have also general term Ojce. To word Ojce are related words Ojcowizna private estates or Ojczyzna estate of all. It should be noted that polish is not agglutinative language and the words are single words.
...because this is not one of the six systems laid out by Morgan. "Crow" kinship does not refer to the kindship of the Crow but to a system found widely around the world in different specific forms. This article is not the place to go into detail on every language. Besides, the above seems to violate NOR and NPOV. Slrubenstein | Talk 11:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Redirect
A number of terms redirect to this page but are not discussed here. For example, I came here via "Avunculocal" which is not mentioned at all in this article. Should the redirects be made into their own articles, or can someone flesh out the information here? 72.196.104.129 22:28, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I came here via "Consanguine" but there was no reference in the article either. 220.255.41.232 (talk) 13:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Morgan's classification
From Eskimo kinship: "Morgan's system of classification is considered obsolete in current mainstream anthropology." What then is the modern view? 149.159.112.89 22:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Definitions of the six types
The definitions are a little unclear; as seen in common mid-20th-century use, the terms were really most clearly defined on the sibling-cousin generation:
- Hawaiian kinship
- Siblings and cousins not distinguished (the same terms are used for both types of relatives).
- Eskimo kinship
- Siblings are distinguished from cousins, while all types of cousins are grouped together.
- Iroquois kinship
- Siblings are grouped together with parallel cousins, while separate terms are used for cross-cousins.
- Sudanese kinship
- Siblings are distinguished from cousins and different terms are used each type of cousin (i.e. father's brother's children, father's sister's children, mother's sister's children and mother's brother's children).
- Crow kinship
- Iroquois kinship, with the addition that a number of relatives belonging to one's father's matrilineage are grouped together, ignoring generational differences, so that the same term is used for both one's father's sister and one's father's sister's daughter, etc.
- Omaha kinship
- Iroquois, with the addition that a number of relatives belonging to one's mother's patrilineage are grouped together, ignoring generational differences, so that the same term is used for both one's mother's brother and one's mother's brother's son, etc.
[edit] Note on Dravidian (Tamil) Kinship Terms
The Dravidian notions of kinship are built into the language.It is difficult to understand this kinship without a knowledge of the actual terms employed.
amma, appa - mother, father
akka, anna - elder sister, elder brother
tangai, tambi - younger sister, younger brother
pattan, patti - grandpa, grandma
periyamma - mother's elder sister, or father's elder brother's wife
periyappa - father's elder brother, or mother's elder sister's nusband
chiththappa - father's younger brother, or mother's younger sister's husband
chiththi - mother's younger sister, or father's younger brother's wife
[Note: Children of periappa /periamma, and chiththi /chiththappa are NOT cousins but brothers and sisters "of the first remove ('onnu vittadu')." Marriage between them is strictly forbidden and considered incestuous. Only "cross" cousins are considered cousins.]
mama - mother's brother, or father's sister's husband
aththai - father's sister, or mother's brother's wife
aththan - son of aththai and mama, also general term for husband
[Note: The children of one's father's sisters (aththai) and mother's brothers (mama) (or "cross" cousins) are considered potential mates or "muraippasangal." "Murai" is the right to claim to a cross cousin. Marriage between such cousins is the norm. Such cousins are often "meant" for one another from birth.]
marumagan - for a man, his sister's son (as his brother's son is his son);for a woman, her brother's son (her sister's son being her son);also, general term for son-in-law
marumagal - for a man, his sister's daughter (as his brother's daughter is his daughter);for a woman, her brother's daughter (her sister's daughter being her daughter);also, general term for daughter-in-law
Some Tamil communities also practise uncle-niece marriages where the maternal uncle (mother's younger brother) may marry his niece (his elder sister's daughter). Hence, the term "muraimaman" for one's mother's younger brother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.226.84 (talk) 06:37, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- You miss the point. "Dravidian kinship terminology" does not refer to Tamil practices. It refers to a system that is actually found all over the world. many Amazonian societies use Dravidian kinship terminology, in their own language of course (and they have different marriage practices than the Tamil do). Slrubenstein | Talk 22:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
