Talk:Oirats
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[edit] Split ethnicity and history?
What about splitting this into two articles? One on the Oirat/Kalmyk History, and then one on the Oirat ethnic group of Mongolia and China? Today they don't really fit into the category of "Kalmyk" of Russia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.106.234.100 (talk • contribs) --Latebird 10:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
- I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't see a clear division line yet. Note that any of the following articles (and probably others) may include relevant information:
- Whatever change you propose in detail should make sure that no unnecessary redundancy between those is created. In any case you'll have to find good and reliable sources. This may be somewhat difficult because it is a rather obscure topic. Just as an example, a statement like "Perhaps also Derbet, Khoit, & Darkhat." clearly needs an attribution, or it will be qualified as Original Research. Maybe you have access to related scientific material, which would be great. --Latebird 10:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
- I would be happy with either a change or a big cleanup, but it is a really complicated thing--I'd be happy either way, with a Oirat ethnicity article, and a Oirat History or by putting them together. If we end up making an Oirat history article seperate, that can also be the Kalmyk early history, for the most part, which could be linked from the Kalmyk page. I don't think there is enough for the Torghut article yet, and if we start delving into the Oirat tribes we might as well start an Oolt page, and so on. The Russian Kalmyk page has a nice map of where Oirat is spoken (in Russian). That would be cool to change over here too. I'm happy to do whatever people in general want-as best as I can. --Erkin2008 20:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
- Does anybody know about the Derbet, Khoit, & Darkhat tribes--that is more then just thought? I only knew of the first four that are mentioned, but these were carried on from some older Wikipedia article.--Erkin2008 21:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Oirat Tribes
In NW Mongolia, the Oirat tribes are as follows:
- Choros (or Olot)
- Dorbet
- Khoit
- Torghut
- Khoshut
- Bayid
- Mangit
- Darkhat
- Urianhai
- Zakhachin
The first eight tribes listed above also call the Dzungaria region of NW China and the Amdo region of NE Tibet home.
In the early 17th century, the first three Oirat tribes listed above formed the Dzungar Khanate. The Khoshuts, otoh, formed the Khoshut Khanate in the Amdo region of NE Tibet. The Torghut tribe with minor elements of the Dorbet tribe migrated westward to the Caspian steppe to form what would become known as the Kalmyk Khanate. --Buzava 03:58, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- Interesting information, what's the source? Maybe it is best to add all reliable facts (and references) to the article, and then figure out how to split the result. --08:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm Kalmyk-Oirat and wrote about 98 percent of the Kalmyk article. --Buzava 14:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- Which makes it especially important to avoid Original Research. I assume you're familiar with Wikipedia's requirements of Attribution? On the positive side, you might have access to sources that would be very difficult for others to access. Just list them as references and everything is fine. --Latebird 16:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Numbers don't add up...
Total population: 166,000
Regions with significant populations People's Republic of China 166,000 Mongolia Mongolia 205,500
It seems that the total population is only that of China. I could easily add them up but i don't like to assume an article on wikipedia without citations is reliable so i won't just assume these numbers. Just an FYI. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arthurian Legend (talk • contribs) 15:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Contraditiction
The article contradicts name of Güshi Khan spelled differently in different articles all over the place and more importantly, Lha-bzang Khan is listed as great grandson here, but grandson on his own page of Güshi Khan.Jinnai (talk) 20:32, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- The spelling of historical Mongol (and other) names tends to be somewhat volatile, so I wouldn't really see this as a contradiction (other than grandson vs. great grandson, of course). There are two possibilities to solve this: Ideally, you can demonstrate which spelling is most common en recent English language sources. If that is not possible, then you can search for the historical spelling in the traditional Mongolian script and transcribe from there. There's some discussion sprinkled over Wikipedia Talk:Naming conventions (Mongolian) about the best transcription system to use. The experts there are likely to lend a helpful hand. --Latebird (talk) 05:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Oirats under Chingisids
In 1207, Jochi subjugated forest tribes including Oirats. His father gave them to his eldest son for his bravery. Most scholars agree that they were under the direct control of Yuan emperors. But some scholars said that Oirats headed by Khaidu were fighting against Khubilai. I read that Naimans were annexed by Khaidu around 1280's. Who was their supreme lord in the late Mongol Empire: Kublai, Khaidu or probably Jochids. Is there anyone know about it?.--Enerelt (talk) 05:30, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Addition of Chinese Name
Is it appopirate to add 瓦刺 this chinese name and redirect it to this article?Mark Mak (talk) 14:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
