Wikipedia talk:Flagged revisions/Trial
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[edit] Related discussions
- Wikipedia talk:Flagged revisions and its archives contain the full history of FlaggedRevisions development on en.wiki
- Wikipedia talk:Flagged revisions/Trial/Archive 1 contains previous discussion on this specific proposal
- Wikipedia:Protecting BLP articles feeler survey contains a survey of FlaggedRevisions on BLP articles
[edit] Electoral articles and flagged revisions
I am no fan of the proposal to block editors from working on Wiki by this "flagged revision" charade, BUT, as I am far too eager and willing to continue working on projects within Wiki, I am willing to continue as long as i understand some of the practical consequences of this plan.
In June this year, the European Parliament election, 2009 (United Kingdom) will be one election taking place within the European Parliament election, 2009. As many of you may be aware, the updating of candidates and results for these elections will be a major piece of work for those editors who enjoy taking part in what I call "electoral administration". We are the editors who have been filling in election results, constituency boundaries, and political party information for as long as Wiki has been getting going.
My problem with flagged revisions in relation to these "electoral administrative" edits has two questions, which I hope can be answered here. If an editor with a lot of experience wishes to update these articles (and others like them) with results or candidate details, will there be a major delay to this? Will there be editors experienced enough to know that the results being entered are not vandalism?
Flagged revision seems, to me, a total slap in the face of the Wiki project. But my willingness to continue remains strong. I woul dlike assurances, therefore, that in this practical example, the "fr" proposal will not forbid me and others from continuing the work we have done for so long
Cheers, doktorb wordsdeeds 17:59, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
- If there is no need for protection on that article, flagged revs won't be turned on for it. If there is need of protection, then flagged revs will let it be updated faster because with regular protection like we have now the users would have to first go to the talk page to request the change, and then another user would have to go and make the change. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
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- There are 10 possibilities being considered for trials over at Wikipedia:Flagged revisions/Trial/Proposed trials. Only 2 of these is for flagged revisions restricted to those articles that would otherwise be protected (2 and 10). The other proposals would certainly flag articles which would not otherwise be protected. This is the problem with this debate. Everyone has their own idea of what flagged revisions would be, but we do not have a single proposal. I believe that, regardless of what guidelines we gave, many more articles would be flagged than would ever be protected. I think this because it seems rather softer to many people. Thehalfone (talk) 09:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- I so heartily agree with thehalfone in this, which bears repeating: "This is the problem with this debate. Everyone has their own idea of what flagged revisions would be, but we do not have a single proposal. I believe that, regardless of what guidelines we gave, many more articles would be flagged than would ever be protected." I can see the comments now: "Well, my idea of what should require flagging was mentioned here in the poll and/or discussions and wasn't definitively refuted. Therefore, there's consensus for it."
- What was refuted time and time again, was the idea that we need (or can) define beforehand what FR is to be used for or tried out on. The poll was only about turning on - or not - the capability. Everyone who says what will or won't be done with it is expressing a personal opinion about "our" intentions, no matter how authoritative s/he makes it sound. - Hordaland (talk) 15:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- There are 10 possibilities being considered for trials over at Wikipedia:Flagged revisions/Trial/Proposed trials. Only 2 of these is for flagged revisions restricted to those articles that would otherwise be protected (2 and 10). The other proposals would certainly flag articles which would not otherwise be protected. This is the problem with this debate. Everyone has their own idea of what flagged revisions would be, but we do not have a single proposal. I believe that, regardless of what guidelines we gave, many more articles would be flagged than would ever be protected. I think this because it seems rather softer to many people. Thehalfone (talk) 09:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Forget 'flagged revisions' -- just turn anon editing off and be done wit' it
Seriously. Anonymous editors are more trouble than they're worth! Granted, some of them (1%?) actually do make useful edits, but those that do should get accounts. The vast majority of anonymous editors are troublemakers and vandals, and disallowing completely open-editing without accountability is just a recipe for disaster. Furthermore, this middle of the road 'flagged revisions' bullcrap is just going to drag Wikipedia into 'bureaucratic hell', and turn off a lot of truly good editors. You saw what happened when the German Wikipedia turned this cr*p on? Wait times of THREE WEEKS! That's totally unacceptable! Mark my words: FLAGGED REVISIONS WILL ULTIMATELY FAIL.
The only solution for true accountability is to require all users to open an account, which is free, so we're still, "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit." Ok, maybe not "anyone" -- vandals and assholes won't be able to edit, but they can't now anyway because they're quickly reverted.
Wake up, Wikipedia! Stop pushing a flawed philosophical approach, and just do the right thing and turn off anonymous editing! Dr. Cash (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- It'll never happen. And no, IP users make a LOT of helpful edits. I would argue they tend to be minor as a rule (a spelling error here, a wikilink there, a date correction over there), but that's a very good thing. They are the exact types of edits 'drive by' editors will make and are needed -- the reason WP works so well is because of the collaboration, multiple eyes seeing things. I can't see how requiring people to create accounts is somehow better than still allowing anyone to edit any time, with a bit of a safety net toward what's displayed. There's other issues with your post, but I don't feel like repeating myself for the eighth time. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 23:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- vandals and assholes won't be able to edit - Unless of course they make an account, which takes all of 15 seconds. Mr.Z-man 23:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- I remmber reading someplace that 73% of good edits come from ips, and only 11% of vandalism.--Pattont/c 12:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- If you remember reading it "someplace" that it shouldn't be to hard to find a [citation needed],... Dr. Cash (talk) 19:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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- I don't know if this is what Patton123 referred to. It mentions the number in opposite context, but further down the article are some interesting findings. 212.200.240.232 (talk) 19:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
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- User:Dragons flight/Log analysis? Hut 8.5 19:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- Can we add "Flagged Revisions" to WP:Perennial proposals? Please? What is going on with FR now, anyway? All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 23:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- I am also wondering "what is going on" since everything seems to have stalled and there seems to be no established course of action. I am only aware of this page and the pages linked from the "Related discussions" section. Is there discussion going on somewhere else? Barrylb (talk) 05:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- Can we add "Flagged Revisions" to WP:Perennial proposals? Please? What is going on with FR now, anyway? All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 23:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- User:Dragons flight/Log analysis? Hut 8.5 19:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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- Standard response: the essential difference between flagged revisions and no-anonymous-editing is that flagged revisions do not raise the bar for anyone to contribute, it only delays those contributions from becoming visible. It affects the sense of instant gratification, but doesn't add hoops for inexperienced contributors to jump through. Dcoetzee 06:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- This thread's original poster assumes that disallowing anons to create articles would get rid of all newly-introduced inaccuracies in articles, which is simply not true. There is a significant amount of vandalism and well-meaning errors from registered users that need to be addressed in order to increase the accuracy of WP. - Mgm|(talk) 11:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Flag protection, patrolled revisions and deferred revisions
I have made three proposals related to Flaggedrevs, for which we could run trials. The proposals are a variant of Flag protection, Patrolled revisions and Deferred revisions. Comments would be appreciated to see if there is support for some of them and what to do next. Cenarium (talk) 15:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia:Flagged protection and patrolled revisions
It is proposed to run a trial of Flagged Revisions at Wikipedia:Flagged protection and patrolled revisions. The proposal is divided in two parts:
- Flagged protection: an article can be 'protected' by an administrator so that the version viewed by readers by default is the latest flagged version. This is a modified version of the original flagged protection proposal.
- Patrolled revisions: a 'passive' flag used to monitor articles, especially blps, for vandalism, blp violations, pov pushing, etc, that can be used for all articles, but has no effect on the version viewed by readers.
The proposals are independent but supplement each other. They involve the creation of a 'reviewer' usergroup. This implementation can support secondary trials. The main trial should run for two months, then a community discussion should decide the future of the implementation. Cenarium (talk) 22:42, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
A poll has started at Wikipedia talk:Flagged protection and patrolled revisions/Poll. Cenarium (talk) 18:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
